About this episode
Sarah Williams, founder and CEO of Leading Culture and former director at GAP Consulting for 23 years, brings her accounting background and business growth strategy expertise to a spirited debate about ROI, value-based pricing, and why companies leave money on the table. From her home in New Zealand (Mark's second favorite country), Sarah challenges conventional pricing wisdom—arguing that ROI applies to both B2B and B2C, that we should ignore competitors when determining value, and that the antidote to the curse of knowledge is thinking with a beginner's mind. Mark pushes back on opportunity costs, explains why competitor pricing matters, and uses everything from vests to Louis Vuitton handbags to make his points in this engaging conversation about helping customers understand the true value of what they're buying. Why You Have to Check Out Today's Podcast: Understand why teaching customers to think in ROI is the fastest way to eliminate buyer's remorse, increase prices, and differentiate from competitors who focus on features. Discover the beginner's mind approach that prevents the #1 mistake pricing experts make—assuming customers know what seems "obvious" to you. Master vulnerability-based trust by inviting customers to ask questions without fear—the counterintuitive sales technique that accelerates deals faster than "looking professional". "Think in terms of value from the customer's perspective." – Sarah Williams Topics Covered: 03:01 - Why ROI Should Be Everyone's Decision-Making Framework 06:10 - Helping Customers Think in ROI Terms: Your Job as the Provider 08:12 - Utility in Economics: The B2C Alternative to Monetary ROI 20:00 - The Opportunity Cost Debate: Pricing vs. Budgeting Decisions 25:19 - Differentiation Value: Starting with Competitor's Price, Then Adding 27:57 - Louis Vuitton vs. $40 Handbags: Conspicuous Consumption and What People Really Buy 32:31 - Starting with a Blank Slate: Thinking Myopically About Customer Value 35:32 - Final Advice: Think in Terms of Value from the Customer's Perspective Key Takeaways: ROI on its own can be a decision-making framework. From the point of view of maybe even making a personal decision, I can think about, well, what's the return on investment? And that might even be an investment of my time." - Sarah Williams "We're doing our customers a disservice if we're not helping them to think in terms of ROI. Like, what really am I getting? Because buyer's remorse is really, really prevalent. People make split-second
