About this episode
Today's guest is Susannah Cahalan, whose new book is The Acid Queen, a biography of Rosemary Woodruff Leary—muse, fugitive, and heavily indicted co-conspirator in Timothy Leary's psychedelic revolution.
She talks with Reason's Nick Gillespie about hippie communes, outlaw drug smuggling, the war on drugs—and how the '60s counterculture, in its best moments, ran experiments in radical individualism, using personal freedoms to build voluntary communities rooted in altered consciousness and aesthetic liberation. The Acid Queen helps explain how the personal became the political, why libertarians should care about the messy legacy of the counterculture, and what comes next in drug policy, especially regarding psychedelics.
This conversation was recorded at a live event in New York City. Go here to find out about upcoming events. Go here to sign up for Reason's NYC events newsletter.
0:00—Introduction
1:15—Who is Rosemary Woodruff Leary?
7:02—How did Rosemary meet Timothy Leary?
9:57—Why America was ready to experiment with psychedelics
15:12—Rosemary's connection to John Lennon and Yoko Ono
16:11—How Rosemary and Timothy Leary became outlaws
21:07—The jailbreak of Timothy Leary
28:45—The political speech of Timothy Leary
31:45—Why Rosemary and Timothy split up
35:31—The final years of Rosemary
40:08—The reconciliation of Rosemary and Timothy
42:54—The common thread between Cahalan's books
46:18—Labeling in mental health
48:34—Cahalan's experience with psychedelics
Upcoming events:
Reason Speakeasy: Nick Gillespie and Elizabeth Nolan Brown on the MAHA Movement, June 25
The Reason Roundtable Live in New York City, July 15
Today's Sponsors:
Reliance College: What if one day could change how you think—how you lead—and how you shape your future? Join Reliance College for Reliance Day—Saturday, June 28 in Los Angeles! This one-day, high-impact experience is designed for students, professionals, and lifelong learners ready to level up their thinking in an AI-driven world. At Reliance Day, you'll dive into collaborative Socratic discussions and sharpen the critical thinking and leadership skills that drive success in college, business, and life. It's a full day of intellectual challenge and creative exploration—rooted in the Great Books and Montessori-ins
