About this episode
You can’t build great products on gut instinct, and yet, according to IBM’s global study of 1,000 enterprises, 77% of organisations using generative AI aren’t seeing any financial benefit. In this episode on The Product Experience podcast, Lily Smith sits down with Matthew Certner, Digital Product Engineering and Design Partner at IBM, to unpack the four key traits that drive ROI in AI-powered product teams: flexibility, incremental and targeted delivery, data-led decisions, and cross-functional collaboration. Recorded live at the Industry conference, this conversation offers practical lessons for any product leader navigating the hype and reality of AI adoption. Chapters00:00 – The danger of building on gut instinct00:37 – IBM’s global study on generative and agentic AI adoption01:00 – Meet Matthew Certner, Digital Product Engineering Partner at IBM02:00 – Why most enterprises aren’t realising ROI from AI04:50 – What the top-performing 20% of companies do differently05:10 – The four key behaviours driving success07:00 – Flexibility: adapting quickly to market feedback08:10 – Incremental and targeted delivery — the “golden thread” principle10:30 – Data-led decision-making versus the HIPPO effect11:45 – Cross-functional collaboration and robust adoption13:10 – Behavioural factors that make or break AI adoption14:20 – Inside IBM’s “value orchestration” framework15:10 – The Golden Thread in practice — a sticky-note story from Dallas17:10 – Transparency and traceability in product development18:00 – How IBM helps teams that aren’t seeing value from AI21:00 – The paradox of moving too fast or too slow with AI24:00 – Making the Golden Thread a living document25:20 – Inside IBM Garage: speed of a startup, scale of an enterprise27:40 – Why productivity savings, not hype, drive AI ROI29:00 – How large organisations structure innovation teams30:00 – The future: 800 million new products by 202631:00 – Why 95% will fail — and what the 5% will get right33:10 – Final reflections: value, purpose and the human elementFeatured Links: Follow Matthew on LinkedIn | IBM Garage | Industry Conference Cleveland 2025 recap at Mind The ProductOur HostsLily Smith enjoys working as a consultant product manager with early-stage and growing startups and as a mentor to other product managers. She’s currently Chief Product Officer at BBC Maestro, and has spent 13 years in the tech industry working with startups in the SaaS and mobile space. She’s worked on a diverse range of products – leading the product teams through discovery, prototyping, testing and delivery. Lily also founded ProductTank Bristol and runs ProductCamp in Bristol and Bath.
