About this episode
Are downloads still the right way to measure podcast success?In this episode of PodBiz, Norma Jean Belenky speaks with Dan Misener, co-founder of Bumper, about why the download has lost its value as the industry’s currency and what new measures should define growth. Dan shares how brands like Ford and Shopify are rethinking ROI, what top-of-funnel really means for branded podcasts, and why audience clarity is the key to sustainable strategy.As he puts it:“Why are we selling the number that’s declining? Why are we not selling the number that’s going up?”Here are some insightful moments within the episode:The limits of downloads as a measure of successVerified listeners, time spent, and playback as stronger metricsWhy branded podcasts often win on top-of-funnel strategyWhat Bumper has learned from working with companies like Ford and ShopifyHow creators and publishers should define growth before chasing itDan Misener is the co-founder of Bumper, a podcast growth and strategy company. Previously head of audience development at Pacific Content, Dan has worked with brands including Ford, Shopify, Slack, and Dell on award-winning shows. With a background in public broadcasting at CBC, he has become one of podcasting’s most influential voices on measurement, growth, and the evolving value of audio.Connect with Dan on LinkedIn.Learn more at wearebumper.com.Episode Chapters01:15 – Where’s the Money? | How brands monetize podcasts directly and indirectly04:15 – Top of Funnel | What Shopify taught Dan about brand shows07:33 – Brand ROI | What Ford and the Met want from podcasting12:23 – The Death of the Download | Why it’s no longer the right yardstick16:47 – Verified Listeners & Playback | Measuring people, not impressions20:26 – Audience Clarity | Why knowing who you serve drives growth24:23 – The Hidden Work | Why good podcasting looks effortless but isn’t27:54 – Redefining Growth | Asking the right questions before you scale28:46 – Looking Ahead | A new era of measurement and sustainabilitySome Additional PodBiz Buzz…“The smartest teams we’re working with are actively working on de-risking their podcast businesses because the download number… I don’t think that’s coming back.”“When podcasting works, it looks really easy. What people don’t see is the hundreds of decisions behind the scenes that make it successful
