What if the Government Believes in U.F.O.s More Than You Do?

U.F.O.s, fairies and abductions! This week, Ross talks to Diana Walsh Pasulka, a professor of religious studies, about how a deep dive into Catholic archives led her down a path to unravel the connections between religion, extraterrestrial encounters and government secrecy.01:53 - How Pasulka’s religious studies led to the U.F.O. debate06:08 - Modern U.F.O. encounters and telepathic communication13:29 - What are the actual beliefs of the U.F.O. community?19:28 - Whistleblowers and government contradictions31:35 - Angels, demons and “actual things in the sky”45:38 - Disclosure52:51 - “Amazing.”(A full transcript of this episode is available on the Times website.)Thoughts? Email us at interestingtimes@nytimes.com. Please subscribe to our YouTube Channel, Interesting Times with Ross Douthat.  Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. You can also subscribe via your favorite podcast app here https://www.nytimes.com/activate-access/audio?source=podcatcher. For more podcasts and narrated articles, download The New York Times app at nytimes.com/app. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.